Monday, March 02, 2009

Shrinkrap Podcast


Here's an interview I did for Shrink Rap Radio, with Dr. David Van Nuys, Emeritus Professor of Psychology at Sonoma State University.

14 comments:

FB said...

The comments about baby aspirin having a smaller effect size than psi reminded me of the earlier post:

http://deanradin.blogspot.com/2009/02/matching-funds-drive-for-macro-pk.html

I fear that people will continue to dismiss PK until macro PK is used as obviously as people use their hands. E.g. if people were to play ping-pong gripping the rackets with PK rather than their hands, people might finally *start* to reconsider the taboo.

Let's hope the taboo continues to erode, even without PK-table-tennis.

Then of course around 27:40 you mentioned that there is little laboratory evidence for macro-PK. I'm glad you mentioned your metal-bending event.

Personally I have high hopes for qigong. I noticed that the recently linked JSE papers include at least one that mentions external qi.

FB said...

I was intrigued by the discussion of "bootstrap statistics" which appear to be nonparametric. I am a novice at statistics, so I don't know much, but it sounds like nonparametric stuff would be the way to approach it.

At around 70 minutes into the interview, you mentioned survival research and you said that the evidence comes down to someone's experience. My understanding was that materialization mediums have shown physical results that can be recorded by mechanical means. You're probably aware of

www.montaguekeen.com

and

www.victorzammit.com

but I suppose they bear mentioning.

I liked the "Learn to Listen" slogan.

Lawrence said...

yeah great interview. Forgot that you were a serious violinist.

I don't think the taboo against psi in academia is going to go away any time soon, and if anything in their desperation and insecurity the church of scientific materialism is using every dirty trick in the book to mantain their vice-like grip on the minds of the next generation of academics and scientists.

I think that there is a tremendous dark age, a false knowledge that rules in the universities, reflected in the media etc, and it has never really been worse. The thing is when not encouraging students to expand their minds, and question things and open up to hidden possibilites as psi research does, well a false knowledge fills that vaccuum.

In place of truth, the lie of scientific materialism and reductionism holds sway, and the damage done is tremendous. One such disastrous consequence is what passes for medical and health care - an excessive reliance on often dubious medication (that can do more harm than good) to mistreat symptoms of disease, instead of addressing fundamental causation. This is rooted in deeply held scientific reductionism (and profiteering) which is self perpetuating. The associated hijacking of the medical sciences by the multi-billion dollar BigPharma industry, and related. So much more, I just give one example. What about the GMO controversy for example? Is that not a consequence of both disastrous scientific reductionist thinking, greed and hubris associated with "the universe is meaningless and us scientists are the true gods" thinking...?

My point is that the billions spent on dubious medical research that is all too often corrupted and hijacked by BigPharma (as the med journals are corrupted by BigPharma) and GMOs and related, goes hand in hand with the near zero funding for parapsychology and other cutting-edge science. They are not seperate issues.

Where men do not follow truth, they follow lies. This is reflected in the whole warped set-up of the universities today. Wise men have put it better than I have, but you get my drift...

Obviously I don't refer to engineering and technology, astronomy and the like. I mean the natural sciences especially and of course the social sciences. And it is reflected through the prism of what passes for our culture, and thus on society as a whole. And back again...

Yet who is really putting it all together?

anonymous said...

"My understanding was that materialization mediums have shown physical results that can be recorded by mechanical means."

One of the criticisms of survival research is that the phenomena described seem to be paranormal but they might be due to living psychics rather than spirits. This is sometimes called the super-psi hypothesis. Some of the best evidence for actual survival are the cross correspondences. These are messages that have come through in parts through several mediums and involve very specialized knowledge known by the deceased. When these types of messages come through multiple mediums spontaneously, not at the behest of a investigator or sitter one has to ask who is the living psychic responsible for it? There really does seem to be a non physical being with the specialized knowledge of the deceased engaging in purposeful behavior. This is highly convincing evidence of survival.


For more information on the cross correspondences see:
http://www.survivalafterdeath.org.uk/articles/oesterreich/cross.htm
http://metgat.gaia.com/blog/2008/2/the_eager_dead_and_undying_love
http://www.victorzammit.com/book/4thedition/chapter16.html

FB said...

Anonymous, thanks for the links.

Lawrence, the social structures of the world have been shaken by the events of the last eight years, the decline of the nation-state, and the financial scandal.

If the world gets shaken up, the taboos might get loosened. In fact, Montague Keen seems to have been predicting that 2009 will be remembered as a year of throwing off old taboos.

A condensed set of predictions are at:
http://parapublishable.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-is-montague-keen-doing-in-2009.html

and of course the original source is
www.montaguekeen.com

Dave Smith said...

Hi Anonymous,

"When these types of messages come through multiple mediums spontaneously, not at the behest of a investigator or sitter one has to ask who is the living psychic responsible for it?"


Surely, cross correspondences suggest multiple instances of psi?

Even if there is no kind of request from investigators or sitters and even if the information comes through multiple mediums, in principle there is still the possibility of telepathy, precognition or clairvoyance on the part of the mediums.

(Although I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that term because I'm not familiar with these cases)

Could you provide a brief example?

I am advocating the psi hypothesis essentially because the information provided by the medium has to be verified in some way at some point in time and by somebody if a judgement is to be made as to whether it is a paranormal event. For example, if it is the medium who eventually delves into the sitters family history, then it could be precognition. If the medium has no further contact with the sitter or family then it could be telepathy between the medium and whoever does eventually verify the details provided by the medium.

anonymous said...

"A condensed set of predictions are at:
http://parapublishable.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-is-montague-keen-doing-in-2009.html

and of course the original source is
www.montaguekeen.com"


Hi FB,

I took a look at the links. It seems like the medium is Veronica Keen, is that right? Do you know if there any information available about her history as a medium. I searched a bit but didn't find any.

I'm wondering if the medium who gave these predictions attributed to Montague does evidential mediumship. (Ie. gives readings to people and is able to bring through information about deceased relatives she would be unlikely to know without really communicating with the spirit). That is one factor to consider when assessing these types of predictions. If the medium has a strong track record of evidential mediumship, it lends credibility to other types of information they might bring through.

Thanks

David Bailey said...

Lawrence said: "Where men do not follow truth, they follow lies."

I would not be as black and white as that. The idea that everything could be explained by material and mechanism has certainly worked well, but may be coming to the end of its usefulness.

An analogy might be the theory that matter is composed of indivisible atoms. This galvanised chemistry and the theory of gasses, etc. - yet ultimately it was realised that atoms are not indivisible.

anonymous said...

Surely, cross correspondences suggest multiple instances of psi?

I would say yes, psi between the spirit and the several mediums. Are you saying it could be psi between living people? To me the spirit hypothesis seems a more likely explanation for the cross correspondences than the super psi hypothesis.


Even if there is no kind of request from investigators or sitters and even if the information comes through multiple mediums, in principle there is still the possibility of telepathy, precognition or clairvoyance on the part of the mediums.

Yes but there is no known living person who set out to start an experiment, and different mediums seem to be participating unknowingly in that experiment. Who is controlling it?

(Although I'm not entirely sure what you mean by that term because I'm not familiar with these cases)

What term? Cross Correspondences?
Did you look at the links I posted?

Could you provide a brief example?


see below

I am advocating the psi hypothesis essentially because the information provided by the medium has to be verified in some way at some point in time and by somebody if a judgement is to be made as to whether it is a paranormal event. For example, if it is the medium who eventually delves into the sitters family history, then it could be precognition. If the medium has no further contact with the sitter or family then it could be telepathy between the medium and whoever does eventually verify the details provided by the medium.


Look at the links I posted, here is a hypothetical example:


One day you get an unexpected e-mail from your friend Lenora who is a psychic which says, "Hi Dave I got this weird message by automatic writing: 'μια βελονιά εγκαίρως Fred'".

The next day you get an equally unexpected email from another friend Gladys who is also a psychic which says: "Hi Dave I got this weird message by automatic writing: 'σώζει εννέα Myers'"

When you put the messages together and translate them into english using babelfish

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt

you get the message "a stitch in time saves nine - Fred Myers".


Your look up Fred Myers in the encyclopedia of parapsychology and find out he is was a psychical researcher who died many years ago who had a classical education.


Verification is implicit in the message. Verification is not dependant not upon specialized knowledge of the spirit. However, the specialized knowledge in the message helps to identify who the spirit is.

Different people will explain it differently. It seems to me the most reasonable explanation is the spirit hypothesis. A skeptic will say it was a coincidince, fraud, or unconscious fraud. Super psi-proponents will say it is psi among living people.

From my point of view what seems to make it convincing that it is a spirit is that it requires organization and (in the real examples) very specialized knowledge of the deceased. Could a living psychic do this unconsciously, maybe but it seems more likely to me that it is a spirit who is doing it.

My feeling is that the super psi hypothesis is a kind of flying spagetti monster. How can anyone disprove it? God and the saints could jump down from heaven and start dealing out justice and you could still say some living psychic is doing it unconsciously.

I can't disprove super-psi, all I can do is explain why I think unconscious super-psi is less likely than a spirit as an explanation of the cross correspondences. My reason is that there is no convenient living person to designate as the instigator of the coordinated phenomena which involves very specialized knowledge of the spirit. In those cases it seems more likely that it is a spirit than unconscious super psi.

FB said...

"It seems like the medium is Veronica Keen, is that right?"

As far as I can tell, the main medium is someone named Albert. Monty is quoted at
http://montaguekeen.com/articles/montague/feb1-2009.htm

saying

Albert is one of the very few Mediums I can work with. I am greatly disappointed in the SPR because too many people have spoken for me when I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN THOSE COMMUNICATIONS.



...But I'm just a web-reader, I'm not associated with that group, and if I really wanted to know I suppose I'll have to make a long-distance phone call to Australia, or else write a letter on a thin slice of bleached wood-pulp.

Admin said...

Dean, I appreciate your great efforts to show that ESP is real and I agree with you that it is real.
Other's remain unconvinced - not sure what it is going to take to convince them - as a recent guest Dr. Peter Cochrane of the coasttocoastam.com show insists...


Rus = I'm afraid that others strongly disagree with Radin et al - hence my statement.
Until, and unless, we get a very strong scientific consensus ESP remains in the 'also ran box' - ie, it might or might not be real.
We just don't know at this stage - there is insufficient repeatable experimental experiments by diverse and disparate groups.
The past is, and the future will be, littered by people who convince themselves that something is true when it isn't.
And it isn't sufficient to wish for something to be true - like ESP, UFOs, ET Life etc - it has to be proven on the basis of eveidence.
Sherlock Holmes coined it quite nicely: "My dear Watson you have committed the cardinal sin of jumping to a conclusion based on insufficient evidence." And believe me it happens all the time, and in the $$$ + fame driven times it is accelerating!
All the best, Peter

Professor Peter Cochrane
Cochrane Associates Co-FounderHome = www.cochrane.org.ukCompany = www.ca-global.org
Email = peter@ca-global.org +44 7747 863013 (everywhere on the planet)

Cochrane Associates Ltd: UK Registered Company #5560563 - VAT #874 4966 68

Registered Office: Blick Rothenberg, 12 York Gate, Regent's Park, London, NW1 4QS, UK




On 7 Mar 2009, at 06:10, Russ wrote:


Hello Peter,

I heard you on the Coasttocoastam.com radio show the other night with George Norey.

I heard you say that there is no evidence for ESP because the experiments done by some cannot be repeated. This is not true.

It is ironic that you went on that radio show and said that because that radio show is ALL about the paranormal.

You need to check out Dr. Dean Radin from the Noetics Institute in California which was starte up by Dr. Edgar Mitchell who was a US astronaut that walked on the Moon and also saved Apollo 13. The Noetics Institute is dedicated to studying what conciousness is.

As Dean Radin said, ESP or PSI has a higher statistical record of proof than does the use of Asperin to prevent heart attacks and yet PSI remains a TABOO to the academic establishment.

Also consider that Albert Einstein wrote the forward to Upton Sinclaire's book 'Mental Radio' in which Einstein wrote that the integrity of Upton Sinclaire was beyond question.

I know from contact with a gifted psychic in a University classroom surrounded by other students and Professor Robert Harper that ESP is real but that is not going to convince you as it is my anecdote. There are many strange things about reality and the universe.

I suggest you watch the video on Utube of Dean Radin giving a talk to Google workers and also listen to him talk about Quantum Physics etc. on other videos in this link... http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=t&ie=UTF-8&rls=GGLJ,GGLJ:2008-48,GGLJ:en&q=dean+radin+youtube

Cheers
Russ Browne
Vancouver, Canada

Dean Radin said...

Three comments on the above:

> until ... we get a very strong scientific consensus ESP remains in the 'also ran box' ...

True. Unfortunately gaining such a consensus is not as rational a process as one might hope.

> there is insufficient repeatable experimental experiments by diverse and disparate groups

This is not true, as I've patiently tried to explain to anyone who is willing to listen.

> ... it happens all the time, and in the $$$ + fame driven times it is accelerating!

Anyone who attempts to apply science to ESP learns very quickly that money and fame are absolutely the last things you're likely to encounter!

Jime said...

I am advocating the psi hypothesis essentially because the information provided by the medium has to be verified in some way at some point in time and by somebody if a judgement is to be made as to whether it is a paranormal event. For example, if it is the medium who eventually delves into the sitters family history, then it could be precognition. If the medium has no further contact with the sitter or family then it could be telepathy between the medium and whoever does eventually verify the details provided by the medium

I agree with super-psi as a plausible explanation for some cases suggestive of survival (a discussion of it may be read in Stephen Braude's book Immortal Remains)

However, I think some cases offer better evidence for survival than for super-psi:

Direct voice mediumship, where the "spirits" manifest the same or very similar voice than when lived on Earth in physical bodies. (see specially Lesli Flint's mediumship; and John Sloan's mediumship described in Arthur Findlays' books)

In some cases, the spirits talk about (using the same particular voice tone and idiosincratic manners than those used when on Earth) complex topics (unknown by the medium or the sitter), or specific personal details.

Yes, theoretically, psi could explain the datails and other information. But the pecualiar tone of the voice?

And in cases of materialization mediumship, is super-ESP a more parsimonious explanation for it than the survival hypothesis?

As far I see the problem, and provided that we accept the evidence (at least, the best of them), afterlife/survival hypothesis seems to be a better candidate for explain the data in a more parsimonious way (and it gives us a reason to prefer survival instead of super-ESP).

It probably can't discard super-psi interpretations; but it makes them less plausible, and therefore, less preferable.

anonymous said...

"Surely, cross correspondences suggest multiple instances of psi?

...

Could you provide a brief example?"

If you want to look at some examples from the Proceedings of the Society for Psychical Research (PSPR), I have just added a "Web Guide to the PSPR" to my web site.


http://www.geocities.com/chs4o8pt/pspr_map.html

The Web Guide lists the tables of contents for the volumes of the PSPR that are available to view on-line at books.google.com. There is also a link direct to the volume at books.google.com where you can view each article. Use your browser's Find function to search the Web Guide for "cross-correspond" and then go to books.google.com to view the article on-line. You can also download the whole volume if you want.